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Randall Hayes's avatar

Glad you mentioned Tolkien here. 'The Notion Club Papers' is not one I've read myself, just seen it mentioned online.

https://dc.swosu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2126&context=mythlore

I think one place this stuff migrated to was comics. Marvel jumped on the ancient aliens bandwagon pretty hard. Dr. Strange is basically an enlightened master doing astral travel all the time.

https://randallhayes.substack.com/p/them-blasted-mutants

Sara Light-Waller's avatar

He wrote that paper with Dunne, did he? That’s very interesting as Dunne’s time travel experiment is often referred to in mid-century science fiction.

Right! Doctor Strange and many other mystical-type comic characters. There was a Doctor Strange graphic novel from the 1980s or 90s called “Shambala” which had some great art and was about Maya. But many things were transferred to comics and that transition is also interesting.

Randall Hayes's avatar

In another episode you mention Mort Weisinger and Julius Schwartz, who both had long careers in comics, most famously in DC’s Silver Age stuff.

Sara Light-Waller's avatar

I also mention Edmond Hamilton and you know of his history with early Batman and Superman, of course?

Randall Hayes's avatar

No, I don’t know that name. Thanks!

Sara Light-Waller's avatar

Many pulp-era writers and artists also worked in Golden Age comics. For example, Henry Kuttner wrote some Green Lantern stories from 1944-1946.

Randall Hayes's avatar

Didn’t know that, either. Manly Wade Wellman, yes, but not Kuttner.

William Emmons's avatar

What a lovely episode. Sometimes I wish your episodes were longer so you could more into this stuff.

I’m wondering how or if H. Rider Haggard’s She novels fit into this framework since they’re earlier and also basically theosophical fantasy (that’s my reading anyway).

I also have the tiniest bone to pick with your idea that you can’t have science fiction before Gernsback. His framework was that scientifiction was the Poe-Verne-Wells kind of story so allowed for scientifiction to pre-exist the coining of the term.

Take care!

Sara Light-Waller's avatar

I’ll start with the Gernsback comment. Yes, there absolutely was science fiction before Gernsback and Amazing Stories. But there wasn’t the label—science fiction. I completely agree that we have evidence going all the way back to ancient Greece. But it wasn’t called that. So, I’m trying to be accurate to the timeline and the labels. Context is very important.

About “She”. I have some other, earlier, stories that I’m working on fitting into this transitional framework and “She” is one of them. Important, certainly. But it just might be attached to something else from the Victorian side and I haven’t quite the evidence I need yet to make that statement. Comment continues…

Sara Light-Waller's avatar

To continue…About transitional fantasy. I found another really interesting example of this transitional fantasy literature last night (too late to add to this week’s podcast) called “Drowsy” from 1917. It’s super interesting as it has something to do with sounds in space. I’ll read it and add an addendum if need be. But the wide spectrum of these stories shows they’re more than a fluke.

Thanks for listening! The podcasts are as long as I have time to make them right now. I admit that last one was a bit short, the topic is large. But I’ll get back to it. And who knows…perhaps I’ll stretch to 30 minutes at some point.

Cheers!